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Diablo: The Hell - forums » The Hell forum [ENG] » Hellforge » Version 1.60 in development
Version 1.60 in development
Mordor Date: Sa, 2008-03-22, 02:54 | Message # 1
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Currently, I have created about 13 different town palettes, finished all 60 Cave palettes, and tomorrow I start messing with Abyss palettes. I've made a commitment to finish all dungeon palettes by the end of this weekend. So, I have to create 46 variations for Abyss and fix one Crypt palette (with high contrast blue liquids). And maybe I'll fix one Church palette where the floor is too much blue.

If you have any suggestions about palettes, they are welcome.

 
Mordor Date: Sa, 2008-03-22, 15:46 | Message # 2
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Commitment cancelled because I'm fed up with Cave palettes for now )

Some examples below.

I'm testing colors on Hellfire. Don't get surprised because of GUI colors.

 
oli25 Date: Sa, 2008-03-22, 16:38 | Message # 3
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Very nice palets. But make some with other collors than black/red/orange biggrin

Edited by oli25 - Sa, 2008-03-22, 17:16
 
Mordor Date: Sa, 2008-03-22, 17:11 | Message # 4
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Caves are finished. There are 60 palettes. I think you'll never see all of them in-game. Red lava and dark environment also exist, don't worry.
 
Koven Date: Mn, 2008-03-24, 01:12 | Message # 5
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Nice work on palettes, it really adds a plus to the game.

Since the 1.59 version : "A lot of monsters and their bosses relocated for better monster variety on levels".
In theory, this idea seems great : it brings more variety and more randomness, making the game less boring. I haven't tested all levels, only some of them, but I don't like the new localizations. Before this update, each level had its own coherence, homogeneity and above all its own personality. The progression was, in my opinion, smoother and just simply better. Some examples :

- Night clans (archers with Lite arrows) in level 5, often in mass (level 6 before)
- Annoying Poisonous dogs in a level 9 which already contains lot of different monsters (bats, vipers, bears, spiders)
- Lightning demons appear too early according to me. Before, they could be met on level 15. Now, they can be present from level 13 to level 16.

Before the 1.59 version, some levels were mainly (the 9th) or totally (the 14th) populated with melee monsters, which allowed to melee characters taking a little breath. It doesn't exist anymore and all levels tend to look like each other. The purpose of this change was to make the game better, I don't think it has succeed.

That's why I suggest that in the 1.60, a modification should be brought concerning monsters localizations. Not necessarily coming back to the old ones, but figuring out a better way to conciliate balanced progression, coherence and ambiance of each level but also replay value (which includes randomness). I would like to hear your opinions on there.

Edited by Koven - Mn, 2008-03-24, 01:13
 
Mordor Date: Mn, 2008-03-24, 02:12 | Message # 6
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Before that update, I also thought that each level would be better off with its own set of monsters.

Moreover, I didn't mix beasts and necros on one level.

The first idea proved not very smart, but the latter.. I don't know. The reason for not mixing necros with beasts was because of them requiring different melee weapons. And I never really liked continuously switching between sgarps and blunts. This would be no problem if there were some fast switch option like in D2 (by pressing "W"), but since there is no such thing, it becomes annoying to continuously swith between the two. I don't think this should be reverted back.

But with monster localizations...

I didn't just relocate beasts. I also thoroughly adjusted their stats. Same about their corresponding bosses, of course. Difficulty balance is even better. Why? Because now you won't see 15 bosses on one level. On some levels, you won't even encounter bosses. This is also a factor of luck. IMO, it really adds to the game.

Probably, you like some type of monsters more, others - less. And before you knew where to find your minions. Now you don't because it's a lot more random. Perhaps, this adds to this complaint?

It would be possible to maintain each level's "personality" if there were 1024 monster slots instead of current.. 137 (iirc?)

Lightning demons can be encountered as early as level 10 now. But their type has stats appropriate for those levels.

Opinions are welcome. But I think current set of things is better than before. Randomness is greatly increased. While balance is improved.

Even though opinions are welcome, reverting back to levels populated by preset types of monsters will be done reluctantly by me. It's a lot of work. And before starting it, I must be totally convinced it's for the good.

 
Gladoo Date: Mn, 2008-03-24, 05:29 | Message # 7
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I think its decent the way it is now but I'm really chaotic and wouldn't mind seeing a really mixed up set of mobs on each level. Even higher level mobs up on the top levels (in low numbers). If monsters can open doors, why can't they use stairs? This would work if you make all weapons damage everything evenly.
 
Orachin Date: Mn, 2008-03-24, 09:08 | Message # 8
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Gladoo, I havent completely understood u, u think that if every type of monster will take 1.00x damage from every type of weapon that would be cool? :agree:
 
Mordor Date: Tu, 2008-03-25, 01:20 | Message # 9
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Rob, any animation-based news? I'm dying to see anything from you! tongue

I told Sh4rk that you will finish Glad's animation... I think he stopped the work.

 
Gladoo Date: Tu, 2008-03-25, 01:23 | Message # 10
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Yes, thats what I mean Orachin. Archers and sorcs don't have to worry about that, why should melee characters?

p.s. Mordor: the palettes look great, I wish I understood it well enough to help you out but I cannot make heads or tails of it. I'll give it another try next time I have a few days to look at it.

Добавлено (25.03.2008, 01:23)
---------------------------------------------
I finished sh4rk's yesterday smile I know it took me longer than usual, but you know its spring and the girls are out in force.

I was going to wait until I finished the last folder to send it all to you but I can send his now if you want. I also wanted to look though all of them again before finalizing it all. I noticed some glitches in some of the frames while I was playing and fixed them, so I want to check them all. If there is anything else you want to add with the town animations, I can do those too.

p.p.s - I see a post about Diablo 3 a few days ago but I cannot read it, what does it say Mordor?

Edited by Gladoo - Tu, 2008-03-25, 01:30
 
oli25 Date: Tu, 2008-03-25, 19:36 | Message # 11
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Well, I agree with Koven about monsters... before it was better. In previous version every dlvl was unique and special cuz it had its own types of monsters. There were also more bosses. On dlvl 14 i had only 2 types of monsters... Now almost every dlvl looks almost the same and its more boring imho than before. Now with one spell you can clear whole dlvl cuz you can have all monsters with quiete the same resistances ... Its all up to you to decide anyway what will be better :P
 
Mordor Date: Tu, 2008-03-25, 19:47 | Message # 12
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some say it was boring to have the same monsters on the levels. some say it was better. taste vary. Personally, I belong to the first group. Much of monster seed predictability was needed for testing. But now that the testing is finished, randomize can again step back.

It's not that it became easier with less bosses. Base monsters now are of greater danger compared to bosses. As compared to previous versions. Horror mode is really easier than before. Purgy starts introducing difficulties and Doom is the epitome. Especially, big bad bosses like Butchy, Leo or Defiler.

Gladoo, take your time and finish what you're planning. I'd prefer to wait more if the quality is involved. Regarding town, I still don't see any necessity to modify those.

About D3, that topic is a 100% offtop thing. Nothing interesting.

 
Mordor Date: Mn, 2008-03-31, 20:11 | Message # 13
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Shield AC was adjusted in 1.59h, see TH Armory.xls for details
 
Mordor Date: Fr, 2008-04-04, 17:58 | Message # 14
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An idea came to my mind. What if I make random TRN coloring for monsters? Say, each monster type could have 120 different color variations. This way you'd almost never see 2 monsters with similar colors on the same DLVL.
 
oli25 Date: Fr, 2008-04-04, 19:15 | Message # 15
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hmm... now when you see a different colored monster you know its boss and you can run/cast spell or whatever. This will only confuse :P. I prefer it the way it is now...
imho gladiator and assassin needs new colors more than monsters do ;).


Edited by oli25 - Fr, 2008-04-04, 19:18
 
Mordor Date: Fr, 2008-04-04, 19:48 | Message # 16
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Quote (oli25)
when you see a different colored monster you know its boss and you can run/cast spell or whatever. This will only confuse

they would no longer look like twins all of them. but the issue with boss monsters is important, too.

assassin will take much longer time to get finished. probably, recoloring gladiator could be started when Gladoo will finish the animation files.

 
Gladoo Date: Sa, 2008-04-05, 02:01 | Message # 17
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recoloring wasn't in my contract wacko I want a raise!
 
Mordor Date: Sa, 2008-04-05, 02:08 | Message # 18
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I was planning to do it myself actually
 
Gladoo Date: Sa, 2008-04-05, 02:17 | Message # 19
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I was joking but ok smile . Another couple weeks and I should have everything finished up.
 
Mordor Date: Sa, 2008-04-05, 02:30 | Message # 20
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i was joking back (i dont use smiles too much. thats what)

my avatar is grinny enough i think

 
Gladoo Date: Sa, 2008-04-05, 07:54 | Message # 21
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that he is, but he's gap toothed lol
 
Mordor Date: Tu, 2008-04-15, 20:28 | Message # 22
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Holy Bolt formula has been modified. Now it is:
minDmg baseMAG + 5, maxDmg baseMAG + 10

A screenshot to demonstrate this:

 
Mordor Date: Sa, 2008-04-19, 21:17 | Message # 23
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Next spell to adjust is Flash

What I have in mind: make arcane star a long range magic spell with damage comparable to that of fiery blast. and make flash some sort of emergency spell that would be useful when surrounded or engaged in melee by melee monsters.

I'd really appreciate suggestions about flash now. If you can come up with formulas so much the better.

 
Koven Date: Sa, 2008-04-19, 23:49 | Message # 24
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Just a try, but I don't know if this formula is adapted to flash (fast attack rate like Inferno or chain lightning ?) :
(((SLVL^2)xCLVL)/3) + (Current MAGx2)

Max damage (with a SLVL of 28, CLVL50 and CurMAG 300) ~ 13 500

Edited by Koven - Sa, 2008-04-19, 23:53
 
Mordor Date: Su, 2008-04-20, 00:41 | Message # 25
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Jarulf's guide says the following:

Spell type: magic (but uses same animation as lightning)
Min. Damage: [3•Rec(slvl, clvl)/2]
Max. Damage: 2•[3•Rec(slvl, clvl)/2]
Quick Min. Damage: 3•clvl/2 • (9/8)^slvl
Quick Max. Damage: 3•clvl • (9/8)^slvl
Real Damage 1: [3•Rec(slvl, Itt(clvl, Rnd[20] + 1))/2]/64
Real Damage 2: [3•Rec(slvl, Itt(clvl, Rnd[2] + 1))/2]/64
Duration: 0.95 seconds
Blockable: No

* The Flash spell is actually composed of two different effects, the two different Real Damages given are for the two different effects. The first hit in front of you and to the sides, the other behind you.
* You seem to be able to do two flashes in a row, then you have to wait for them to finish. Don’t know how this affects damage though.
* While casting Flash, you are temporarily invulnerable and can’t access the normal GUI.
* The flash will try to hit once every 0.05 seconds for a total of 19 times.
=====================================

However, in TheHell Flash is more bugged than in original Hellfire. Secondary (rear side) effect doesn't cause any damage at all. Front side is working well, but is kind of weak. I think, its strength should be increased. Unfortunately, the spell is messed up at the moment.

Maybe, the formula would be [3•Rec(slvl, Itt(clvl, Rnd[30] + 1))/2]/64. This way a mage of level 50 with slvl 30 would deal average 2860 points of resisted damage if his flash hits all 19 times. double cast flash would deal double damage: average 5720.

upd:
the formula will be [3•Rec(slvl, Itt(clvl, Rnd[40] + 1))/2]/64

upd:
it's all done. version 1.59p is uploaded and ready for fieldtests. share some thoughts after you play with it for a while.. Also, see spells.xls for further details about new Flash's advanced details.

 
Mordor Date: Tu, 2008-04-22, 01:36 | Message # 26
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At last all Abyss palettes are finished. You can view most of them here

upd:

Another thing that needs attention. Defiler. He always drops Crypt map and this very thing is known to repel many from doing Defiler runs. Which is bad bad bad if you ask me.

Something's gotta be done with this map. Any ideas?

 
oli25 Date: Tu, 2008-04-22, 14:06 | Message # 27
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Can you give him drop like uber diablo has? (magical or unique item). Or maybe random Elixir?
 
Mordor Date: Tu, 2008-04-22, 17:58 | Message # 28
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I can, but then he won't drop the Crypt map. And it is required in SP mode.

Currently, I am thinking about double drop like in The Dark. But it's a tough thing for me. I succeeded with Life & Mana regeneration, which was very tough for me, but it took me lots of time and brainsqueeze. I'd like to avoid that tongue

 
Koven Date: Tu, 2008-04-22, 20:08 | Message # 29
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Renegade's Ring and Aldritch's Heritage (or something like that, I don't remember exactly) are really bad and useless in my opinion because of their drawbacks. I don't understand their utility. I think it deserves a modification.

Giant's Knuckle : in your update, you said "- 1 SLVL", I have this message displayed "spell levels unchanged (?)"

 
Mordor Date: Tu, 2008-04-22, 20:18 | Message # 30
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Quote (Koven)
Giant's Knuckle : in your update, you said "- 1 SLVL", I have this message displayed "spell levels unchanged (?)"

it works for me, and I assume that it should work for others equally well. try to restart game with this item in your inventory. that should help, and if it won't, tell me.

Quote (Koven)
Renegade's Ring and Aldritch's Heritage

making them useful would require some brainpower. they should differ from other items of similar nature and give some valuable bonuses, plus a nasty but managable drawback, but at the same time remain unique, meaning they would give something that usual magical things would NOT give.

often times, playing around with good and bad effects brings results. for instance:

+ much life, - all resistance
+ AC, - some damage absorption (+DFE)
+ mana, - life
+ life, - mana
+ AC, - life
+ resistances, + DFE
+ life, decreased rate of life regeneration
+ same with mana
+ damage, - accuracy (- ToHit%)
+ accuracy, - damage
+ mana, - SLVL
+ magic, - mana
+ mana, - magic
+ ARD, + resists, + life, +DFE
- DFE, - AC
etc.

playing around with these combinations could result in something nice. if you like doing this and can spend enough time on it, you'll figure out what to choose. other magical items and unique items should be taken into consideration as well.

for now, I'm back to modifying spells....

 
Mordor Date: We, 2008-04-23, 01:52 | Message # 31
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Scout's chance for critical reduced to 1 + (clvl /4)%. The damage is still +300%

Gladiator's maximum base Vitality is 220 now, done to limit maximum DFE at 110. And extra damage from Vitality when using axe raised to (CLVL * Vit) / 60

 
Mordor Date: Fr, 2008-04-25, 15:35 | Message # 32
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There are several very dark palettes for Cave levels. I intend to fix that, but I'm not really sure. Are they ok or too dark really?

Nevermind, I have fixed most of them already, but left one dark palette (not without adjusting its gamma though).

Edited by Mordor - Fr, 2008-04-25, 17:55
 
oli25 Date: Fr, 2008-04-25, 21:55 | Message # 33
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I had really dark one. Sorry for image quality cuz its screenshot of screenshot from game wacko
 
Mordor Date: Sa, 2008-04-26, 00:13 | Message # 34
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Looks like the one I decided to leave present in the game. I made a few adjustment to colors so that it looks a bit nicer. still, it will be rare: only 1/60th chance to come across this palette. That would be OK, I assume.

upd:

Version 1.60 has been released this afternoon.

This thread is continued either in '1.61 in development' or in 'To Do list'

 
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