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Diablo: The Hell - forums » The Hell forum [ENG] » Hellforge » Suggestions
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Mordor Date: Th, 2008-05-01, 17:37 | Message # 101
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I don't like running.

On top of that, I intend to restore characters footstep sounds, to make it closer to Diablo original.

 
Poseidon Date: Th, 2008-05-01, 18:33 | Message # 102
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Quote (Koven)
Characters walk slower in town than in dungeons (!).

Check your "jog" speed, under the "Setup" menu. Character walks 3 times faster in towns...

Quote (Mordor)
BTW, have you ever had experience with ASM?

Well none in The American Society For Microbiology
or The American Society of Mammalogists
but if you're talking about the Java bytecode manipulation framework, well... still no...
If it's not the Java bytecode i don't know what is this.

If it is the Java... why would you need it? I believe Diablo was written in C (and Diablo 2 in C++ which is a great idiotism, Assembler would be more appropriate...). I easily can adapt to stuff so if you give me a link with a brief explanation and an example code i believe i can work some stuff out (that's how i learned HTML and IRC scripting, just by figuring out stuff.)
I'll be glad to help, even though i under a lot of pressure at the moment i'll see what i can do!

Edit: Some more stuff i noticed during playing atm:

1. Gladiator starts with 2 Fury skills. I haven't tried if they're different...
2. I managed to learn Fury from a book, and it appeared on my right click options as a spell (the skill was still there as well), but it didn't appear in the spell book. (Gladiator only)
3. Fury doesn't always leave you with 1 life. It can even kill you if you have low amount of health at the moment. If your life is full, then it leaves you full. Yes in most other cases it leaves you with 1 life...
4. Does the game kick you out of horror when you reach lvl 30, or you just can't start a new one?

Edited by Poseidon - Th, 2008-05-01, 20:09
 
Koven Date: Th, 2008-05-01, 20:20 | Message # 103
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You probably misunderstood my message. Characters in dungeons don't run. But they are faster. The current walking speed in town is unbearable and could be increased to the dungeon speed.

Quote (Poseidon)
Check your "jog" speed, under the "Setup" menu. Character walks 3 times faster in towns...

Changing the Walk speed in this menu is without effect in the 1.60b version. The skull cursor comes back to the left each time.

Quote (Poseidon)
1. Gladiator starts with 2 Fury skills. I haven't tried if they're different...

Gladiator has an upgraded "Fury" (it's explained in the F.A.Q I believe) so, as far as I know, he takes no advantage from learning the spell instead of relying on his inherent ability.

Quote (Poseidon)
4. Does the game kick you out of horror when you reach lvl 30, or you just can't start a new one?

You no longer can start a new game in horror mode.

Edited by Koven - Th, 2008-05-01, 20:35
 
Poseidon Date: Th, 2008-05-01, 21:28 | Message # 104
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Quote (Koven)
But they are faster. The current walking speed in town is unbearable and could be increased to the dungeon speed.

My character moves 3-4 times faster in town o_O...
And yes the "Jog" option is bugged...

 
Koven Date: Th, 2008-05-01, 22:30 | Message # 105
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Do you really play with The Hell version 1.60b ?
 
Frinta Date: Fr, 2008-05-02, 00:17 | Message # 106
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Town jogging has been disabled in the latest version, the latest version is about 1 day old so it's likely poseidon hasn't upgraded to it yet.

@poseidon: I think ASM = Assembler.


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Poseidon Date: Fr, 2008-05-02, 05:27 | Message # 107
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Actually the ReadMe says jogging was disabled in 1.60, but that's not true as i am with it. Maybe it was implented in 1.60a or 1.60b after all...

About the morphing bug:
I believe it has to do something with the Unique Randomness, and their names. As magic items receive their names based on the feats they give, uniques doesn't. Uniques have pre-defined names, but not pre-defined feats (or at least some of them). As far as i know the code for this is called Random Generator (at least in Pascal in which i know the basics). Uniques have constants (AC, Health, -DFE etc.) but the values for this constants are randomly generated. It has to be somewhere in this part. As the game defines everything on it's starting (Lazarus will drop exactly this item, and Diablo will drop exactly this item), so it follows that it defines the values for the Uniques in the same way (on starting a new game). That's the only logical explanation for me.... I just don't get why does it convert it into worthless crap, rather than just giving it another values...

Edited by Poseidon - Fr, 2008-05-02, 05:29
 
Gladoo Date: Fr, 2008-05-02, 07:44 | Message # 108
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I'm not sure I like the idea of running executables and having it edit the registry. I know it's coming from Mordor but new people trying out the mod will be turned off by it. A patcher would be more widely accepted even though it is already fairly easy to patch to the newest version.

Edited by Gladoo - Fr, 2008-05-02, 07:48
 
Frinta Date: Fr, 2008-05-02, 10:03 | Message # 109
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hmm don't take my word for it but when you updated to version 1.60 did you download the ~26 megs? or just like the ~300kb patch?
Mordor told me that the 300kb patch won't update you from 1.59 to 1.60... so maybe your not even on 1.60? but my memory is vague on when the run/jog thing was disabled, you might be right that it was disabled in the 1.60b patch.


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Mordor Date: Fr, 2008-05-02, 12:11 | Message # 110
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Poseidon,
Only unique items, received from completing QUESTS are morphed on restart. If all uniques would morph on restart, this would be a catastrophe!

Moreover, the very same uniques that you get from completing the quests can be found as a random drop. The latter do NOT morph.
-----------------
Running was disabled in 1.60, of that I'm sure.
-----------------
I agree with Gladoo: I prefer RAR archive rather than an executable that would mess with registry and fill it with crap.
-----------------
Poseidon,

About Assembler (ASM)... It's easy on one hand, butdifficult (for me) on the other.
I can give you an example of the code.
Let's take Thorns effect for instance. What I know about it, I will comment to the right.

:0043E596 A114AE6E00 mov eax, dword ptr [006EAE14] << make eax dword pointer to local character
:0043E59B F684304355000004 test byte ptr [eax+esi+00005543], 04 << test if Thorns are equipped
:0043E5A3 7437 je 0043E5DC << skip the rest if not
:0043E5A5 6A03 push 00000003 << push the value of 3
:0043E5A7 B163 mov cl, 63 << ???
:0043E5A9 5A pop edx << move the value of 3 to EDX (?)
:0043E5AA E8ABB9FDFF call 00419F5A << call random value generator routine: Random 0 - (x-1)
:0043E5AF 40 inc eax << add +1 to returned result: the result is: 1 + random (0 - 2), which is (1-3)
:0043E5B0 8D8F1CDD6900 lea ecx, dword ptr [edi+0069DD1C] << ecx = monster's current life
:0043E5B6 C1E006 shl eax, 06 << multiply thorn damage by 64 (6 times by 2)
:0043E5B9 2901 sub dword ptr [ecx], eax << substract thorn damage (eax) from monsters current life (ecx)

note: the damage is multiplied by 64 because the game recognizes hitpoints not as such but as 1/64 of hitpoint displayed in game to us.

Does it seem comprehensible to you?

 
Poseidon Date: Fr, 2008-05-02, 15:26 | Message # 111
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Well on first sight - no.
Hexidecimal system is not the most appealing one happy
And the code looks like my Windows Registry :P
I got what this line does (well in basic terms) :0043E5A7 B163 mov cl, 63
It moves 63 into "C" low. No idea what is that at least i learned that function :P
I'll play with it a bit, i download TASM 5.0 and see if i'll make any progress...

EDIT: Can you give me a link to the one you're using... i can't find any working installation (one is from 1996 and wants to put a cd into Drive C >.<)

Edited by Poseidon - Fr, 2008-05-02, 16:20
 
Mordor Date: Fr, 2008-05-02, 16:38 | Message # 112
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Quote (Poseidon)
give me a link to the one you're using

here

the file modified is th.exe
for meta menus - hell.dll

 
Poseidon Date: Fr, 2008-05-02, 19:47 | Message # 113
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OK... As soon as i get some free time i'll start trying to understand it...
For now i have a question - How do you get, what part or the code is connected with the exact spell, item etc...
I mean it's all in one file, it's not separated.
 
Mordor Date: Fr, 2008-05-02, 20:26 | Message # 114
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Lots of data & rdata is described here

There is a guide, written by Jarulf, which can be used to find formulas in the executable by looking for similar data. There are also some notes on different mods, including TH, that contain information about past (usually, successful) changes done to the game.

 
steelsoldier Date: Fr, 2008-05-02, 23:41 | Message # 115
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There is a hidden movie file in diablo1
Butcher Movie, perhaps if you could find it you could add it to the game, it would be awesome feature
http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=t2hR6ai6q10
 
Mordor Date: Sa, 2008-05-03, 00:22 | Message # 116
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steelsoldier,
I've seen all these hidden movies. It's well known.

The best feature pack to implement is stillold but hard: balance improvement to prevent the game from becoming boring.

 
steelsoldier Date: Sa, 2008-05-03, 00:42 | Message # 117
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Oh, sorry for the troube then
 
Gladoo Date: Sa, 2008-05-03, 02:59 | Message # 118
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That code makes me remember how much I hate asm. I've taken many classes on it so I know all the commands like push, pop, je but all that hex gives me a headache. We used PCSpim which is a free MIPS32 assembler and kinda easy to use and debug. C++ is so much easier, I can't believe people ever wrote game code using asm.
 
Poseidon Date: Sa, 2008-05-03, 03:48 | Message # 119
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Quote (Gladoo)
I can't believe people ever wrote game code using asm.

I don't know my ICT teachers always said ASM is best for creating games...

 
Frinta Date: Sa, 2008-05-03, 11:30 | Message # 120
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you had computer teachers that knew more about computers than the students?

I didn't. dry

I don't know java from javascript, but I know how to use microsoft publisher to make posters dry excel to make spreadsheets for my job and office (i'm unemployed) dry dry dry and ... dry dry dry dry dry computer class was just the worst angry stupid bloody stupud teachers angry angry angry angry angry angry


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Edited by Frinta - Sa, 2008-05-03, 11:34
 
Poseidon Date: Sa, 2008-05-03, 17:09 | Message # 121
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Well it was the students who where stupid, not the teachers (well except for me). And yes they knew more than the rest of the class...
The thing is i never liked programming - but i learned how to use HTML via Notepad (not using Dreamweaver or whatever for websites), and i learned to create IRC Scripts (I even have my own modification of the IRC Program). But i never got into any of the programming languages whether would it be VB, Delphi, C or Pascal...

Now this went totally off-topic so i'll bring back the normal look:
1. Why is the Abyss called that way. An Abyss is almost the same as Hell, and the level looks more like a Hive...
2. Beholders are unbareble. I think they deserve a minor speed decrease...
3. Dark Mages and Magistrates have variations. One cast lightning, the other casts fireball. The fireball caster are basically twice as tough. fireball does 2xdamage, and activates Hit Recovery, while lightning does not and it is much easier to survive. Besides those mages become invulnerable as soon as they start to teleport (you can't hit them in when they go into clouds of smoke). And i tried this with 0% resist in all.
Maybe those mages should get a minor Hit Points decrease (not much tho... they'll become one hit... at least on Horror).
4. Stingers are far too small. The game shall be hard for monster toughness not for their ability not to be clicked hard. I suggest increasing size and to keep balance increase AC so they're harder to hit (and maybe by a major amount)...
5. Greater demons that surround Diablo are hardest battle in the game if you ask me. They always stay in group and are hyper fast.
I think their Inferno casting range should be decreased by one tile, or the casting speed should be decreased a bit. I mean by the time they need to start chasing you again a single demon already casted 3 infernos...
6. And why is Diablo surrounded by demons at all... It is supposed to be extremely tough duel, not a massacre... I mean Diablo - The Lord of Terror is only two - three times tougher than his puppies surrounding him. And besides King Leoric from DLVL 5 has 10500 life, Diablo has 12200... (or near that). Something doesn't feel right...
7. I'm sick of high-lvl creatures that kick your ass to continue to drop Leather Caps and Short Swords >.< The drop formula should be refixed. And Lazarus, Diablo etc. are basically Unique monsters, in Diablo 2 unique monsters have double drop (bosses have triple and quadraple but that will be imbalanced here) . It makes sense...

That's all for report now :P

 
oli25 Date: Sa, 2008-05-03, 19:01 | Message # 122
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6. IMHO its well balanced. I like Diablo event the way it is. If your plaing on SP you have save and load option which makes life a lot easier. On MP you can get a team (btw I havent seen so many ppl on hamachi as it is now. Maybe you should give it a try biggrin ) There is also Uber Diablo. He isn't sarrounded by "puppies". You can find him on last lvl of Crypts.
 
steelsoldier Date: Sa, 2008-05-03, 19:28 | Message # 123
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I had an idea, but perhaps this is a little too much
I think Paladin shouldnt start with repair skill, but with a healing ability insteed, perhaps Heal other or something


Edited by steelsoldier - Sa, 2008-05-03, 19:29
 
oli25 Date: Mn, 2008-05-05, 17:10 | Message # 124
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Whoa! That sounds amazing! But is it possible to do? Yea I think this would make game less boring (with it you could have for ex. 2 pals with different specializations)
This reminds me of d2 mod called median where every class had 3 uber skills and could choose only one from it.


Edited by oli25 - Mn, 2008-05-05, 17:12
 
Mordor Date: Mn, 2008-05-05, 17:26 | Message # 125
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It's about adding new features, which is in most cases impossible for me personally. Brilliant ideas really, remind me of Fallout perks by the way. These shouldn't be really helpful, or difficulty balance would need adjustments. Which is a very hard and tedious work.

Perks sound like some marketing names. In most cases, such bonuses exist, but ppl don't know about them because they are known to the code of the game and (sometimes) me. Some of them (most important) are covered in TH Guide.

Currently, all modifying is about adjusting currently existing things. Adding new ones is sort of problematic. Maybe, this would be possible if I were not the only one who is working with the game code.

OTOH, I think it's possible to dusplay current stats insteas of basic in character menu and use place from former current stats to display something else. Like I did with Gold (replaced with DFE).

 
Poseidon Date: Mn, 2008-05-05, 17:33 | Message # 126
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Well i'll put this in a different thread, so i can update it and maybe ideas can be offered, and whoa maybe one day it can be implemented.
Now i'm working with freeforums.org and i have a starter thingie you may like but i'll post it in the specified thread :P
 
Koven Date: Mn, 2008-05-05, 18:19 | Message # 127
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Very nice ideas Poseidon, I've already thought of these specializations bonuses or even skills that characters could learn from skill points they gain at each level (a thing we can find in many RPG or in Diablo 2). For sure, it no longer is basic modding, but if it's possible in the future, it'll be a brand new game. Maybe for TH 2.0 ?

Niklatak's Decapitator (not sure of the orthography) : why doesn't this axe have anymore random stats concerning the +%hit and +%damage ?

Gladiator is supposed to use bows from time to time but I find he sucks at it. His rate of fire is very slow. Maybe it deserves a modification. Gladiator is destined to be able to master each weapon and not only axes ou dual melee weapons no ?

 
Mordor Date: Mn, 2008-05-05, 18:52 | Message # 128
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Since TH 1.50 came out in July-August 2007, I can't even imagine when TH 2.0 would come out biggrin

Nikhlatak's could be revised later on, still it's pretty well done I think and extra 50-70% to damage won't be noticable with it's random 0-300% damage feat. Basically, it shouldn't be high as on other weapons like Insomnia.

Glad can utilize many weapons effectively, but still he longs for melee weapons, and especially axes. He can deal decent damage with (cross)bows, albeit unable to score criticals, but his speed is low with those. He can use bows, but I think, it should be rare, when facing fast moving goat archer subtype 3 enemies or counselor attack type enemies.

 
Mordor Date: Mn, 2008-05-05, 19:09 | Message # 129
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Quote (Poseidon)
Why is the Abyss called that way

With new palettes, enemies, traps and music this name becomes this place much more than (filthy) hive. I always hated hive for its ugly palettes and miserable creatures.

Quote (Poseidon)
Beholders are unbareble

They don't retreat always mind you and even with a melee character, they can be killed. Something like demon slaying would help, or cornering them, hiding behind obstacles. It all works.

Quote (Poseidon)
Dark Mages and Magistrates have variations. One cast lightning, the other casts fireball. The fireball caster are basically twice as tough

I tested on Doom with my paladin. One lightning from dark mage substracts almost the same amount of mana that a fireball from magistrate subctracts, tested with even resistances. I assume, you need resistances to fight them. Something like 50% or more will suffice for Horror.

Quote (Poseidon)
Stingers are far too small

They are already quite agile. They are not hard tohit because they are small, they are hard to hit because they use bat attacktype (attack, quickly run away, move sideways, attack,....). If you use Shift key, pointing will be easier.

Quote (Poseidon)
Greater demons....................the casting speed should be decreased a bit

Probably, right. I'll lower secondary attack rate

Quote (Poseidon)
I'm sick of high-lvl creatures that kick your ass to continue to drop Leather Caps and Short Swords >.< The drop formula should be refixed. And Lazarus, Diablo etc. are basically Unique monsters, in Diablo 2 unique monsters have double drop (bosses have triple and quadraple but that will be imbalanced here) . It makes sense...

They have a chance to drop items of levels 1 through [monserlevel]. So, there will always be a chance that they will drop a leather cap. And IMO it's better, human psychology is attracted to the things it can't totally control. Something like casino. Or monster drops cool

Regarding double drops: I tried to do it, but my attempts didn't succeed. If you give me the code, I'll paste it tongue

 
oli25 Date: Mn, 2008-05-05, 19:33 | Message # 130
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I agreee with Koven that glad bow using skill should be improved (he should use bows slower than scouts but not that much...) Paladin is meant to wear shield so why he is better at using bows (2 handed) than glad ?
 
Mordor Date: Mn, 2008-05-05, 20:42 | Message # 131
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OK, now Gladiator uses the following formula to calculate damage when using bows: Str•clvl / 150

This gives the base damage, to which you apply bow's damages whn using it.
For my gladiator of level 34 and STR 189 it gives 43 base damage.

Paladin uses the following formula: Str•clvl / 200, there is no way hs damage can be higher.

However, now you can do some calculations and come up with a reasonable suggestions, with explanations.
For a quick suggest, I could naje him do the same damage as with other weapons: Str•clvl / 125, but still, would like to hear what you say.

 
oli25 Date: Mn, 2008-05-05, 20:52 | Message # 132
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If with Str•clvl / 125 he will have less dmg than scout it will be good (scout must be the best with bows...) What about speed of atacking with bows ? Maybe improve speed, not dmg.
Btw i wonder why have replaced Anvil with new Axe... Dual welding is much better (more +tohit, more dmg, bonuse dmg like with maces against undeads...) Imo it will be better to give some new staff for monk. I am at clvl 31 and i am wearing chaos bringer (the best one in game) so i wonder what i will wear it clvl 40 ? Monk needs new base staff, and chaos bringer based on it. Of course give it much more req than current chaos bringer has and dmg :D.
 
Mordor Date: Mn, 2008-05-05, 21:14 | Message # 133
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Your Monk will get along without a new staff pretty well. He has quad critical damage. Look at your current damage with it. Then multiply it by 4 (critical, CLVL% chance), then double it (devastation, 20% chance), then again double it (+100% dmg vs demons, 100% chance). And remember, maximum melee damage is limited to CLVL*128. Don't forget he has sweep attack, too. What else do you want from your Monk?..

Axe or dual sharps/blunts, it's all about a personal choice for Gladiators. They use axe at higher speed and it gives them extra AC penetration, it also receives a significant damage bonus from Vitality and does sweep attacks. I don't think that dual weapon style is always better.

Glad bow speed will stay the same. He doesn't need extra speed for taking out shooters, and vs melee monsters he is not supposed to use bows. I will only modify damage. By the way, his damage wih bows could be sometimes more than Scout's, but since he reaches similar DEX value later on and is limited in this attribute, Scout will still be stronger. But, to make Glad better with bows, you need to feel that in the battle. Str•clvl / 150 vs Str•clvl / 124 is not very big advantage: first will give damage of 43, second - 52. Usually, bows have damages more than this. And what you feel in battle is the overall damage (basic + bow). So, after some thinking, I think he would need better improvement. Something like Str•clvl / 80, that would give basic damage of 80 or Str•clvl / 60, that would give 107.

 
Koven Date: Mn, 2008-05-05, 21:18 | Message # 134
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In TH screenshots section, we can see the ultimate Monk's staff, which has incredible bonuses. I don't know if this unique has been modified since all this time.

Quote (oli25)
Btw i wonder why have replaced Anvil with new Axe... Dual welding is much better (more +tohit, more dmg, bonuse dmg like with maces against undeads...)

Even with high vitality, a gladiator has indeed interest using two melee weapons, far better than an axe. This character although designed for wearing axes and effective with them, doesn't use them most part of the time because dual wielding is still better (even with %damage affixes reduced).
- chance to reduce melee damage (based on VIT why not, like in TD, good idea imo)
- increased axe range damage (around him ?)

 
Mordor Date: Mn, 2008-05-05, 21:32 | Message # 135
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Koven, I fixed that screen.

About axe, I think that balancing the damage with 2 weapons vs axe in proper way wouldn't require such workarounds with damage reductions. What would that effect mean even? Axes don't halve damage afaik. Probably, dual weapons would need damage reduction, or axe - more damage gain from vitality.

Still, I wonder, what makes him better with two weapons even after +%damage reductions?

 
Koven Date: Mn, 2008-05-05, 21:45 | Message # 136
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2 weapons (generally 2 uniques) = 10 emplacements to bonuses
one axe = 2 slots occupied, so only 5 emplacements to bonuses, I think it's as simple as that. Plus, in dual wielding, %damage on a weapon also applies to the other weapon. It's a great benefit. That's why, even with a +%damage reduction, it's still very effective.

Quote (Modor)
I fixed that screen


What do you mean ?


Edited by Koven - Mn, 2008-05-05, 21:46
 
oli25 Date: Tu, 2008-05-06, 14:42 | Message # 137
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Quote (Koven)
What do you mean ?

He means that that staff has been changed. Just open image in your previous post and look on middified version of that staff.
What is the point in making glad better with axes? After all this hard work on new dualwelding graphics (thx to Gladoo)
 
Mordor Date: Tu, 2008-05-06, 15:18 | Message # 138
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Glad's axe mastery has been restored to clvl*vit / 50, Orachin's suggestion on this matter turned out to be useless, weakening axe mastery further.

Axe or dualweild - it should be a matter of personal preference. Either dex glad for blades or vit glad for axe. Two ways of development. It's better this way.

I also increased bow damage for him to str*clvl / 80

 
oli25 Date: Tu, 2008-05-06, 15:24 | Message # 139
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Hellfire opening music is sooo great... since you have new one in TH (which is also awesome), maybe you will use Hellfire music somewhere else ? Maybe in Abyss?
 
steelsoldier Date: Tu, 2008-05-06, 17:35 | Message # 140
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Mordor could you send me Gladiator picture(Warrior one), so i could make both modifications for the showing image in both Paladin and gladiator, i figured out i could make the game better if the paladin picture and the gladiator where slightly different
Paladin picture
http://img241.imageshack.us/my.php?image=paladinvf5.png


Edited by steelsoldier - Tu, 2008-05-06, 19:03
 
Mordor Date: Tu, 2008-05-06, 21:13 | Message # 141
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There is no picture for gladiator: both warrior and barbarian use the same picture in Hellfire. OTOH, Rogue and Bard used different pics but with same image, that's why ASssassin has different picture now.

I don't know how to modify Gladiator's picture, or more precisely, how to maje the ga,e use modified picture for him and old one - for Paladin.

 
Poseidon Date: We, 2008-05-07, 03:50 | Message # 142
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I believe they're in the .mpq file, with all the other graphics. You need an .mpq reader. Some can be found around the i-net just look on google. I played with some readers a bit, you can find all the graphics there. I don't know how exactly to replace it, but first you'll have to locate it wink
 
oli25 Date: Fr, 2008-05-09, 23:02 | Message # 143
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What about enabling running in town again :P? Many ppl like this feature. If someone prefers walking he can swith to it in options.
 
Mordor Date: Fr, 2008-05-09, 23:44 | Message # 144
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I'm not going to restore it. I have plans on making there free space and using it later.
 
steelsoldier Date: Sa, 2008-05-10, 15:44 | Message # 145
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I think The stats: Strenght and Dexterity should determine the Block chance, and not just Dexterity
 
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